Oil Be Damned!

[Ivor_E_Tower]

Following on from recent threads about oil grades for the new 130PS engine, I found that my local Halfords is now selling this Castrol SLX II stuff, at the famed price of

[Guest SA Intruder]

It's a minefield, innit?

 

Just can't get a definitive answer anywhere.

 

When I first got the car home, it had 51 miles on the clock.

 

Because I'm nosey, I dipped the oil. It was green.

 

When I needed to top up, I bought as per the sticker under the bonnet - VW 506.01 - Castrol SLX2 Longlife.

 

It too was green. And this is the stuff VW sell (Castrol). So I didn't worry.

 

What colour is VW 505.01? I have booked the car in for its first service next week.

 

I said I would bring my own 506.01 - they said they would fill with this. But they say SEAT Tech say that 506.01 is for "variable" service intervals only, and 505.01 is for the normal 15000km drain. So what's "variable" servicing? And why do the factory put stickers under the bonnet??

 

I'm hacked off with this...

[Ivor_E_Tower]

Oh dear, I didn't mean to upset you!

"my" 115ps engine uses the lesser grade but even after the service it was black - just not as sludgy and slightly less opaque than before it went in.

Think I'll have to give Castrol a ring...

[Guest SA Intruder]

NO.....hacked off with the stupid Oil dabacle.

 

You should be able to buy a car and understand which type of engine oil to use. As should the dealers (God only knows what crap Ford fill with).

 

There should be no ambiguity.

 

It's a bit fundamental...

[HJT]

Variable servicing is (according to the VW Sharan brochure) where the car measures the kind of driving that has been done, i.e. short trips, hard driving, cold temps etc, and decides when the service is due. The brochure says that this can be switched off by the dealer and a normal service regime run i.e. 10,000 miles or annually.

 

Howard

[rwtomkins]

These threads about oil have left me so confused about what to put in my 6-month-old 1.9 TDI I've decided to do my own oil changes using the Ford product specified in the owner's manual. Any comments on whether this is the best option if you don't mind getting your hands dirty? How easy/difficult is it if you don't have access to a ramp? I don't think an annual oil change is frequent enough and I'm going to do it at least every 6 months - the local garage owner I spoke to on holiday in Aberdovey, north Wales, last week said he changed the oil in his diesel Galaxy every 1,000 miles! Any comments on best interval between oil changes?

[Ivor_E_Tower]

The limiting factor on oil change intervals tends to be the filter not the oil. This was reported in motoring mags a few years ago when 12,000 mile intervals were introduced. This resulted in larger sized oil filters yet now, they seem to have shrunk back down to where they were in the early 1990's. In any event, change at least once per year or 12,000 miles maximum. What I cannot understand is how the grade of oil to be used should differ depending on whether or not the change interval is fixed or calculated by a computer! I've not phoned Castrol yet, but looking at their limited website, it appears that this expensive SLX II stuff should be suitable for all engines.

As for changing the oil on the Gal yourself - how easy is it to get through the undertray to the drain plug? On my old Rover 820, I could either remove the undertray ( a bit of a pig, 6 or 7 bolts of which usually at least one had rusted and didn't want to come out) or else remove the front offside wheel, which proved easier! Haven't tried my Scenic yet, but same potential problem as Galaxy with undershield that has a screw-off cover under the drain plug. Don't know if I can jack it high enough to get proper access.

[rwtomkins]

Thanks very much for that, Ivor E Tower. From what you say, and the info on the parallel "Oil & Filter Change" thread, it's not really practical to change your own oil without a ramp unless you have a good jack and plenty of axle stands, which I don't. I phoned the local Ford dealer, the Dagenham Motors branch at Highbury Corner in Islington, London N1, and asked them if they'd do an oil change. They quoted

[bushm]

Just to be devils advocate and muddy the water....My local Ford dealer has just told me I should use Ford 10W-40XR oil for my Jan 2000 TDi 110bhp engine at

[Eddie]

This will explaine the PD ref.

The ACEA standards are prefixed with a 'G' for petrol engines and a 'D' or 'PD' for diesel. Coupled with this are numerous approvals by car manufacturers which many oil containers sport with pride. ACEA replaced CCMC in 1996 primarily to allow for greater read-across in test programs (eg for viscosity, viscosity modifiers and base oil). The CCMC specifications were G (1 to 5) for gasoline, D (1 to 5) or heavy duty diesel and PD1 and PD2 for passenger car diesel. ACEA though have a slightly different nomenclature they can be summarised as A for petrol, B for passenger car diesel and E for heavy duty diesel. The ACEA grades may also be followed by the year of issue which will be either '96, '98 (current) but coming soon is 2000.

Full ACEA specs are:

 

A1 Fuel Economy Petrol

A2 Standard performance level

A3 High performance and / or extended drain

B1 Fuel Economy diesel

B2 Standard performance level

B3 High performance and / or extended drain

B4 For direct injection passenger car diesel engines

E1 Non-turbo charged light duty diesel

E2 Standard performance level

E3 High performance extended drain

E4 Higher performance and longer extended drain

E5 (1999) High performance / long drain plus American/API performances. - This is ACEAs first attempt at a global spec.

[bushm]

Thanks Eddie, now I understand what the oil spec in my Ford Handbook refers to (ACEA A3-96 or B3-96). So to summarise: Castrol SLX II should be safe for all Galaxy diesel engines and thats what VW use, Ford use the cheapest one-fits-all Mobil oil or left-overs from the local fish n' chip shop as long as it passes the ACEA A3/B3-96 spec, SEAT may or may not know what to use, there are different oils depending on whether the computer tells you a serice is due or if the mileage indicates a fixed service interval and the critical thing is the oil filter should be changed once a year.

I wish I still had the phone number of that chap who was selling the 300,000 miler, he must have been using the right stuff! :rolleyes:

[rwtomkins]

Here's a piece of advice: whenever a dealer changes your oil, check the dipstick level before you drive away. Just like S A Intruder reports on the Temperature Gauge thread, I took my 1.9TDI into a dealer called Rapid Fit on Holloway Road, London N7 (part of the Dagenham Motors group) just for an oil change and they couldn't even get that right - when I got home, I found the oil level about an inch above the max mark. Now I've got to take it all the way back on Saturday to get it drained and it'll probably blow up on the way or cause some horrible damage that will only become apparent in three years' time. (The handbook says NEVER drive with the oil level above the max mark.) Seriously, anyone know what problems overfilling can cause? I have an idea the catalytic converter is at risk but - embarrassing confession of the week - I don't even know if diesels are fitted with catalytic converters.

 

By the way, the oil still looks very grimey even after the oil change but the dealer says that's a characteristic of diesels, you can never get them clean except with a 20-minute flush. I'm inclined to believe him but go on, tell me I'm a mug.

[Ivor_E_Tower]

1. Engines should be deisgned to be over-filled (to a certain extent) without damage - worked somewhere once where a guy thought he'd do his own oil change, but he drained the gearbox oil then put c4litres back into the engine. Didn't bother to check the oil. Drove into work on the Monday followed by one of my then-colleagues who had the same type of car as "Mr Oil-change". He remarked that the car was throwing out lots of smoke. "Well which bolt did you undo to change the oil? " said my colleage, and when shown, he said "But that's the gearbox".

Mr Oil change had been driving with no gearbox oil and twice the engine oil, and had his car recovered by the breakdown service he subsribed to, back home so he could correct his mistake. As far as we are aware, no engine or gearbox damage was sustained. I've also had the sump over-filled with previous cars that I've owned without any resulting problems (other than taking the car back and asking for the excess to be drained). If the garage is really smart, they will use an electric pump and tube arrangement inserted through the dipstick tube to suck out the excess.

Biggest damage when overfilling, I believe, is if conrods hit the oil in the sump...

2. Few diesels are fitted with cats, but the 1.9TDI is one of them.

3. Black oil after oilchange seems to be a characteristic of diesels - had the same event with my previous car.

[Guest SA Intruder]

Overfilling these engines can cause oil to be drawn out of the engine via the EGR system. This rapidly gums it up and potentially stops it functioning correctly.

 

Other effects: CAT gets contaminated and doesn't function well, and begins a process of continuous degradation and then collapse and blockage.

 

The oil in the sump gets frothed, potentially....not sure on these engines.

 

Anyway, it is a BAD thing, and I really can't understand how something so simple can go wrong.

 

Can you imagine them doing Cambelts?? Cos they do....

[Ivor_E_Tower]

I have to admit that one inch above max on the dipstick sure is overfilled!

Don't forget that oil level will vary as vehicle is cornered at speed, so there is obviously some leeway between top of normal level in sump, and contact with conrods on crankshaft. Crankcase ventilation will also suffer, affecting EGR and possible other nasty side effects too.

Are there any baffles in the sump?

[Sher]

All this talk about oil takes me back to my years at Leeds when I did a first year course about Lubrication Oils. Anyway I am pretty sure that anyone using a fully synthetic oil specifically for Diesel with a viscosity grading of 5W-40 or 0W-30/40 will have no problems at all.

I usully buy my oils in France where they are significantly cheaper and have been using Shell super Helix fully synthetic 5W-40 at around 28Euros or18 Pounds sterling for some years in my 98R Mondeo (100,000 miles) which my daughter now uses. Some Supermarket Branded fully synthetic 5W-40's oils retail at about 20 Euros (13 pounds) and I will be thinking about using these in future.

Remember morethan 50% of New French cars are Diesel not the 20% or so as in the UK.

Injectors, Heaters etc look cheaper also but I,ve not had to replace one yet,

I new about the bulk purchase of lube oils by main agents from my experience with a Volvo 240 Estate I bought in 86. I always supplied them with Mobil 1 Oil 5W-50 for which they Knocked off 30 Pounds for the Valvoline they woild have used.

My 18000mile from new 115TDi Galaxy Ghia is doing all I expect from it and tows like a dream a 1600kg Hobby from Germany to S Spain and back again. From the info in the Car which I bought new last Oct02 the car was built in Germany Sourced in Belgium and imported to the UK in August of last year. Belgium sourced cars have a 2 year warranty as opposed to a British 3 year ( I think)

[Sher]

All this talk about oil takes me back to my years at Leeds when I did a first year course about Lubrication Oils. Anyway I am pretty sure that anyone using a fully synthetic oil specifically for Diesel with a viscosity grading of 5W-40 or 0W-30/40 will have no problems at all.

I usually buy my oils in France where they are significantly cheaper and have been using Shell super Helix fully synthetic 5W-40 at around 28Euros or18 Pounds sterling for some years in my 98R Mondeo (100,000 miles) which my daughter now uses. Some Supermarket Branded fully synthetic 5W-40's oils retail at about 20 Euros (13 pounds) and I will be thinking about using these in future.

Remember more than 50% of New French cars are Diesel not the 20% or so as in the UK.

Injectors, Heaters etc look cheaper also but I've not had to replace one yet,

I knew about the bulk purchase of lube oils by main agents from my experience with a Volvo 240 Estate I bought in 86. I always supplied them with Mobil 1 Oil 5W-50( cost 15 Pounds) for which they Knocked off 30 Pounds for the Valvoline they would have used.

My 18000 mile from new 115TDi Galaxy Ghia is doing all I expect from it and tows like a dream a 1600kg Hobby from Germany to S Spain and back again. From the info in the Car which I bought new last Oct 02 the car was built in Germany Sourced in Belgium and imported to the UK in August of last year. Belgium sourced cars have a 2 year warranty as opposed to a British 3 year ( I think)

[Ivor_E_Tower]

Definitely not built in Germany. All Galaxy/Alhambra/Sharan are built in Portugal in a factory called Autonova (I believe)-a joint venture between Ford and VW neither of whom wanted to fully pay for R&D plus building of an MPV.

Ford have subsequently sold their stake to VW, hence recent threads that Ford will be producing their own 7-seater at some stage in the future.

[rwtomkins]

If anyone wants to hear the end of my oil overfill saga (see earlier this thread), here goes:

 

The oil level turned out to be 2cm, or 3/4, over the max mark on the dipstick - this in spite of a warning on the oil filler cap in vivid red letters that any overfill could damage the catalytic converter. I didn't want to drive the car back to the dealer who changed the oil for fear of doing more damage so on Saturday I went to the local hardware store, bought a piece of plastic tubing, stuck it down the dipstick hole and sucked the excess oil out. It didn't half taste funny. Anyway, it turned out there was just short of 1 litre of excess oil over the diesel engine's normal 4.5 litre capacity (including filter). So not only had they just chucked in the whole of the 5-litre can I gave them, but also left in 1/2 litre of the old oil. No wonder it was grimy.

 

I phoned the AA's technical services and told them I'd done 5 miles in heavy urban traffic with the excess oil in. They said cats were much hardier than people gave them credit for and not to worry, it was highly unlikely any damage had been done. Then this morning I phoned Ford's technical services people on a premium

[Guest JonathanK]

Millers have just anounced a new oil - Millers XFE-PD which has been approved by VW as meeting 505 00 and 505 01 and 'all VW Group diesels'.

 

Check it out on this link: http://www.millersoils.co.uk

 

My local stockist quoted